The first 6 movies pretty conclusively covered the failure of the jedi order and their flaws. TLJ is a lazy retread of this beaten to death point. We did get the whole rich people sold things to both sides point, but it’s purely surface level and doesn’t get explored to any degree.
It left the resistance at a ship full of people and the big bad being kylo who already got beat by Rey in 7 and outsmarted by Luke in 8. He somehow has to redeem himself in 9 while allowing the rest of the bad guys to remain bad, because if he’s actually the leader he can just stop everything.
Luke’s mentors were hermits because they were in hiding. It makes no sense for Luke to hide from a galaxy, there wasn’t an empire actively hunting him. Him being in hiding was JJ’s fault, but the reason was entirely left to Johnson and he fumbled it.
TFA was a lark, and it was infinitely more watchable than any prequel, but TLJ was less than it could have been precisely because JJ did nothing interesting. In that sense, TFA was a movie wasted on being a palette cleanser. TLJ reset the board with a more compelling supreme leader, a Jedi that was ready to move forward instead of living in the past, a potential new relationship with the Force, and supporting heroes that were ready to be more than they’d been created as. It explored what the Luke that JJ hinted at in TFA would have to be, and made him a snarkier version of Dagobah Yoda before letting him begin fixing the problems that Jediness created.
It was not perfect. The slow speed chase was a terrible framing device that left enough nerd-questions that it became distracting, even for me. Canto Bight did drag despite being shorter than people think. Finn’s arc was too narrow a bump from his TFA arc, though it was handled with more grace. Leia Poppins was fine conceptually (she was out there less than a minute, just force pulled something, and it all sent her into a coma), but it looked a little goonie and unfortunately left people feeling unsatisfied after Carrie Fisher’s death. Holdo plot was thematically excellent but executed a little too “gotcha” style in having us root for Poe’s harebrained scheme for too long. Rose was not really a character meant to develop, but rather an embodiment of the spirit of the Resistance, but that made her a little less likeable than she could have been. The your-mom joke was cringey, and something less in-your-face would have served the narrative purpose.
Still, I found its flaws pretty skin deep, and I really appreciated what it was trying to do. I was very annoyed that TROS took so many pains to actively and explicitly shit on it. If they were improv students, Rian would be kind of exasperating, but thoughtful and still squarely in the realm of “Yes, And…” JJ in TROS was more like, well, somebody else.
Really nice to read comments like this. I feel the TLJ debate has a tendency to “deal in absolutes”. Personally i enjoyed it more than TFA, and defintely liked where I felt it was setting up the rest of the series… But it had a bunch of flaws, and some of the hate was understandable, even if unnecesssrily vitriolic. And despite some of the stupidness, I’m still content with it as the final film in the Star Wars octology. An optimistic note of hope in the face of adversity, we don’t really need to see how it all pans out…
![[SWSW] Clearly...](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/09343564-a72f-447b-92e4-0913d00c7ec6.jpeg){kind=link}
The first 6 movies pretty conclusively covered the failure of the jedi order and their flaws. TLJ is a lazy retread of this beaten to death point. We did get the whole rich people sold things to both sides point, but it’s purely surface level and doesn’t get explored to any degree.
It left the resistance at a ship full of people and the big bad being kylo who already got beat by Rey in 7 and outsmarted by Luke in 8. He somehow has to redeem himself in 9 while allowing the rest of the bad guys to remain bad, because if he’s actually the leader he can just stop everything.
Luke’s mentors were hermits because they were in hiding. It makes no sense for Luke to hide from a galaxy, there wasn’t an empire actively hunting him. Him being in hiding was JJ’s fault, but the reason was entirely left to Johnson and he fumbled it.
TFA was a lark, and it was infinitely more watchable than any prequel, but TLJ was less than it could have been precisely because JJ did nothing interesting. In that sense, TFA was a movie wasted on being a palette cleanser. TLJ reset the board with a more compelling supreme leader, a Jedi that was ready to move forward instead of living in the past, a potential new relationship with the Force, and supporting heroes that were ready to be more than they’d been created as. It explored what the Luke that JJ hinted at in TFA would have to be, and made him a snarkier version of Dagobah Yoda before letting him begin fixing the problems that Jediness created.
It was not perfect. The slow speed chase was a terrible framing device that left enough nerd-questions that it became distracting, even for me. Canto Bight did drag despite being shorter than people think. Finn’s arc was too narrow a bump from his TFA arc, though it was handled with more grace. Leia Poppins was fine conceptually (she was out there less than a minute, just force pulled something, and it all sent her into a coma), but it looked a little goonie and unfortunately left people feeling unsatisfied after Carrie Fisher’s death. Holdo plot was thematically excellent but executed a little too “gotcha” style in having us root for Poe’s harebrained scheme for too long. Rose was not really a character meant to develop, but rather an embodiment of the spirit of the Resistance, but that made her a little less likeable than she could have been. The your-mom joke was cringey, and something less in-your-face would have served the narrative purpose.
Still, I found its flaws pretty skin deep, and I really appreciated what it was trying to do. I was very annoyed that TROS took so many pains to actively and explicitly shit on it. If they were improv students, Rian would be kind of exasperating, but thoughtful and still squarely in the realm of “Yes, And…” JJ in TROS was more like, well, somebody else.
Really nice to read comments like this. I feel the TLJ debate has a tendency to “deal in absolutes”. Personally i enjoyed it more than TFA, and defintely liked where I felt it was setting up the rest of the series… But it had a bunch of flaws, and some of the hate was understandable, even if unnecesssrily vitriolic. And despite some of the stupidness, I’m still content with it as the final film in the Star Wars octology. An optimistic note of hope in the face of adversity, we don’t really need to see how it all pans out…