So, Lemmy is sometime missing content. I don’t regret switching from Reddit to Lemmy but, expecially for niche communities, the content isn’t always here.
My idea is to fix this is a Fediverse-based content relay named Relly.
Relly allows you to select RSS feeds, Mastodon users, Mastodon hashtag and Mastodon instances (so, the top posts on that instance) as sources for content, and post them to your favourite Lemmy community.
There are several features which make Relly better and anti-spam:
- Limits for a source (example: only up to 5 posts a day from this RSS feed)
- Limits for a community (example: only up to 5 posts a day to !archlinux)
- Global limits (example: only up to 10 posts made each day)
- Opt-out for servers & communities (instance and community moderators will be able to ask to be put in the UNLIST, which blocks by default Relly on your instace/community; this isn’t an anti-spam, as it is more a tool for avoiding common users to use Relly in a malicous and spammy way)
- Order posts (so, if i have 10 RSS posts and 10 Mastodon posts and a global limit of 15 posts, you can either have the 10 RSS posts and the 5 most upvoted Mastodon posts, or some RSS posts and some Mastodon posts [always the most upvoted])
- Multiple communities (post the same content to different communieties, or set up a fraction [ex. 50%], so that each post has a certain percentage to be posted on a certain community)
- Dynamic limits: You can set an objective of active users/post made in the last 24 hours, so that the limits (either for a specific source, a specific community or globally) will be reduced. Example: if you set a objective of 50 posts, and 25 are made, the limits of Relly will be 50% of what they were originaly set to be; this allows Relly to completly stop posting on a community if the objective was already reached.
- Do not repeat: before posting a link, checks if it was already posted in the community in a specific time period (by default, 48 hours)
- Modularity: new post sources and post outputs can be implemented; an example could be an e-mail output, so that you can run Relly in local and recieve an e-mail everyday with your favourite news)
Relly is designed to be used by moderators of communities, but users can also use it. A user should always ask the moderator if it is OK to use it. A moderator should always ask the admins if it is OK to use it. Moderators, if they are the one using it, should also make public the list of sources, and allow the community to discuss possible edits to the list. The admins should put in the sidebar notes if Relly is OK to use for moderators of communities.
At the moment, Relly is just the idea that I presented here; I want to hear the community’s feedback, and if the community is OK with this project being made, I will start working on it (I will make it in Rust and release under the MIT License).
The content is out there on the internet, you don’t need Lemmy to consume it. What you want is a community of people that care and talk about the content, but you can’t just create that with a f*cking bot.
Please stop this content bot shit and just give it some time to grow organically. Reddit and Twitter weren’t built in a year either. If Lemmy is any good then people will come, if not then we will move on and that’s fine as well.
If Lemmy is any good then people will come, if not then we will move on and that’s fine as well.
No, it’s not. This is a fight against tech companies with multi-billion dollar budgets, who profit from exploiting your data, getting you addicted for “engagement” and who won’t mind destroying any glimpse of social fabric to keep things this way.
Thinking that “community is enough” is bringing a knife to a gun fight. We need to neutralize Big Tech. We need to get as many people as possible out of the Borg. Social media works by the 1/9/90% rule, and the bots are a first step to make this place a viable alternative to the 90%.
The bots are a big step backwards imo. They make this place look like a surreal ghost town, instead of an inviting place to start or participate in a discussion.
It depends on the implementation. If all you have is a handful of bots posting all their posts on a fixed schedule, then yes, it gets quite tedious.
But I believe IMHO that the system I have going for fediverser avoids a lot of those issues. There is one “mirror bot” for each account that is posting on reddit, and they posted to lemmy’s mirror instance in near real-time. This means that the conversations basically happen in the same way they happened on reddit. This also opens up the possibility of (a) two-way communication between Lemmy and Reddit threads and (b) the mechanism for the real person to “take over” the bot account.
So what if people don’t want their answers being mirrored back to Reddit because it’s a greedy company, or redditors don’t want their comments on Lemmy?! Are you going to ask each one individually or just do it without their consent? Does it become a one-way mirror where someone from Reddit will never see your answer, or are you going to flood Reddit with bot accounts as well? That sounds really engaging and not at all creepy to me! /s
So what if people don’t want their answers being mirrored back to Reddit because it’s a greedy company,
Good question. The way that I am designing it at the moment will actually ask for consent. The idea is that if you reply to a reddit mirrored comment, you get a bot telling you “hey, this poster is on reddit, connect your reddit account to if you want to bridge the conversation”.
or redditors don’t want their comments on Lemmy?!
Then it works by opt-out. By logging to the fediverser instance, the reddit -> lemmy mirror is automatically disabled.
The idea is that if you reply to a reddit mirrored comment, you get a bot telling you “hey, this poster is on reddit, connect your reddit account to if you want to bridge the conversation”.
So for someone who doesn’t want to use Reddit (probably quite a lot on Lemmy) these posts are gonna be filled with comments that they can’t really anwers to. That’s exactly what I mean by surreal ghost town.
Then it works by opt-out. By logging to the fediverser instance, the reddit -> lemmy mirror is automatically disabled.
I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in many places. You can’t just copy someone’s content and tell them to login to your service if they don’t like it.
So for someone who doesn’t want to use Reddit (probably quite a lot on Lemmy) these posts are gonna be filled with comments that they can’t really anwers to. That’s exactly what I mean by surreal ghost town.
There is an asymmetry here.
Judging by MAU, we have currently ~35k people on Lemmy because they are against Reddit. We have 300 million people on reddit who are on reddit because “it is where everyone else is”.
If the mirrors are creating 250k new mirror accounts per day, and if one fediverser instance can convert 0.1% of these per day, it’s 250 new users who “don’t care”. In one week, these ~1500 converted users will be in conversation on both networks, which will increase the number of non-bots in mirrored threads and be enough to stop the “ghost town” feeling.
I’m not talking hypotheticals. It is happening already some of the communities where I set this up.
I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in many places.
I’m pretty sure you are wrong. The archive project does not need consent from the users (or reddit) to archive their content. Mirror sites from twitter exist for years already, none of them have faced charges. The worst that Reddit can do is to revoke the keys by claiming violation of the terms of service.
I agree with most of your comment but IDK about the end part. Bots haven’t seemed to be working at all, most people hate them. Luckily there’s a setting to hide all bot posts but most people don’t know that option exists in their settings.
I think the problem with bot posts is that they can put more content in than the human community can sustain. If we don’t have enough humans to vote on all these posts and comment on them, then adding more posts into the pile makes the problem worse, it’s artificial. If humans were actually interested in the content then they would’ve posted it themself. The OP is someone that put themself out there for engagement, it’s an offer to socialize with someone. The next person to see the post knows there’s at least 1 other person willing to talk about this, because there’s always at least the OP.
Instead of bots we’re probably better off just doing our part to make more posts and comments.
Also we probably need to kick some habits from Reddit, like we’re used to not doing self promotion, or being afraid of a community being mostly compromised of your own posts. Also another Reddit habit I think is only posting in specific communities but here if the community is too specific then it won’t have many subscribers, so we should be crossposting to the more general communities too.
I think the problem with bot posts is that they can put more content in than the human community can sustain.
What you are talking about seems to the problem of the RSS bots, which I also dislike. The system I’m working on has a post-mirroring aspect to it, but that’s only one part of it. The main goal of fediverser is to let people migrate away from reddit without letting them feeling like they are missing out on the content from niche communities.
Instead of bots we’re probably better off just doing our part to make more posts and comments.
I’ve said in another thread, this is important but only goes so far. I was subscribed to ~40 subreddits, but I was actively participating in maybe 5-6 of them. For the other 85% of subs, I just wanted to keep a pulse on the discussion but didn’t have the time, energy or expertise to contribute. In my case, there was maybe a handful of communities that I could contribute on Lemmy but about 35 communities that I “wished” there was more content but the people are simply not here yet.
So, what am I to do? I don’t want to be on reddit, but I can bring the content from reddit into these communities. And I completely understand that it might be annoying for those that actually want the interaction, but to those I’d say: please subscribe to the mirror anyway because we are going to “fake til we make it”. The more content we have (even if mirrored) the easier it will be to convince people to migrate and the easier it will be for them to think “if I can follow the same content on both networks, I might as well just move to the place that is not run by a big corp that exploits me and my data”.
What you are talking about seems to the problem of the RSS bots, which I also dislike.
Really I dislike any post where the OP isn’t willing to respond to their notification that they have a comment in their post.
I guess your thing requires linking your Reddit account to it? I’m not sure if I want to risk it currently, I would actually be kinda annoyed if my Reddit account got banned or something.
Your account wouldn’t be banned. Worst case scenario, the API keys from my service would be revoked and that would stop working.
Also, nothing stopping you from creating throwaway accounts just to have the bridge activated…
When the perceived problem is lack of content, why is the solution always to throw more bot posts at it? I’ve blocked or site-banned pretty much every bot account because they’re just adding dead end posts and noise.
For Mastadon content, Lemmy just needs the ability to follow individual users. Not sure if that’s on the roadmap, but it should be straightforward to implement. Same goes for other ActivityPub platforms. When user-follow is possible, that opens up many avenues for users to subscribe to just what they want.
What you’re proposing is not really adding content, just clutter and the appearance of content.
Give Lemmy time, and it will grow organically. Let’s not try to force feed it with reposts from bots. As people discover Lemmy, if half or more of what they see is dead end crap reposted via bots, then I personally feel that will be a turn off for many (which defeats what you’re trying to accomplish).
I really like this linus torvalds quote:
Don’t ever make the mistake [of thinking] that you can design something better than what you get from ruthless massively parallel trial-and-error with a feedback cycle
People have opinions but lets be completely honest here what do they know? Why not trying to build it and see what happens, it might work, btw I myself thought about having something like “fediverse greatest hits” that would show the most liked posts for a particular hashtag so maybe that could be configured to do that.
My view: if users want to see mastodon content then they should go to mastodon. I say this as a mastodon user. Lemmy isn’t an RSS and microblog reader, it’s an entity all of its own and needs to evolve its own culture.
I think the limited number of posts per day feature of this is really the standout that makes this intriguing to me. We already have the Lemmit bot posting every single post from reddit to Lemmy like a firehose, but discussion on them is sort of like yelling into a void. If we only post the top ~3 posts per day from a subreddit, we can condense any conversation into just those and guarantee that it’s not going to get washed away with the rest of the junk content. Even though it’s not ideal, I think a crutch like this could go a long way to seeding some “natural” activity.
I’m begging people to take a look at my fediverser project, and it already does some of these things.
- You can choose if you want to mirror posts from reddit or posts with comments
- You can choose if you want “self posts” or link posts
- You can set a rate limit of mirror posts (maximum X posts per past 24 hours)
- It doesn’t mirror any post if there is already a submission in the Lemmy community with the same URL.
It wouldn’t be difficult to add something similar to RSS feeds.
But what I really want to point out is that what we need is not more content per se. What we need is more people participating in the network, our collective goal should be to get all the people who are using reddit/twitter because “that’s where most people are” and provide them tools to migrate without making them feel like they are missing out on anything. This is how we can win.
It’s a great project, to be honest.
Everyone always wants a technical solution to grow communities. act as though some sort of filter rule or item in the settings menu that will cause more users to post and communities to grow, but always will refuse the most basic thing in communities. Community culture you can always say forums are the public square of the internet. If you don’t have anything to see or do in said square it might as well be a empty abandon parking lot.
