Examples:

Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again (the book)

And before you say “alternate title”, since these supposed alternate titles are included in the full version of the main title (even if it’s usually not listed in full), how does this differ from “true” alternate titles that replace the entire main title?

Example:

Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey vs Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

Into the Deep vs Yakamoz S-245

And then there’s the standard sub-titles, for example:

Captain America: The First Avenger

(Sorry for my lazy title choices but I couldn’t think of any others)

It seems like we have 3 things here: an “or” title in the name (alternate title which is included in the full version of the main title), a completely different alternate title that replaces the main one, and a subtitle following a colon after the main title. Are there different names to distinguish these different types of titles??

Also can we talk about how sub-title is used to mean closed captions as well as “sub-name” (sub-title used in this context)? It makes it impossible to search about because most people understand subtitle to mean closed captions, I think.

    • Lafari@lemmy.worldOP
      166·
      11 months ago

      Thank god for TV Tropes. The “subtitle” meaning “closed captions” or “sub-name” thing still bugs me. Am I the only one bugged by one name being used for multiple things confusingly? Like how “chips” is often used to mean either potato crisps (packet chips) or potato fries (hot chips). Why not just use different names, you know?

      • paddirn@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        11 months ago

        I get what you’re saying, IMO “subtitle” should be what is being referred to in the post, a sort of secondary title, whereas the text on screen for translations shouldn’t also be called subtitles, just “captions” is fine, yet they’re commonly called subtitles, who the hell came up with that?

        Being an American though, we just call them chips or fries. We may not have much else going for us here, but at the very least we have unambiguous names for our potato snacks.

        • HonkyTonkWoman@lemm.ee
          2·
          11 months ago

          It has to do with analog TV & tape-based media distribution.

          Captions follow a very specific standard & are required to be included on certain broadcast media.

          To ensure captioning remains consistent across consumer devices, captions come in specific file formats, typically generated by a third party.

          The files are delivered alongside media deliveries & contain timecode markers to sync the text up with the dialogue.

          Before digital delivery of media for broadcast, each piece of media arrived on a tape. Each tape had the caption file embedded as lines of video, TVs could scan those lines as they came across in the broadcast signal, & display the captions.

          On certain old televisions, you could see the captioning during the broadcast, it would appear as broken black/white dashes across the top of the image.

          Any text included in a caption file is considered captioning. Any text outside of that file that appeared over video (including titles, alternate language translations, logos, etc), is considered a subtitle.

        • dustyData@lemmy.worldEnglish
          22·
          11 months ago

          They used to be transmitted over a hidden portion of the screen, during the NTSC and PAL era. That was topologically on the signal stream area corresponding to right under the video frame. Thus they were titles (text) that were under (sub) the image. They were also unavailable (closed) to the user until they activated them, when the decoder started drawing them over the frame by folding the signal so the text could appear. They originally were invented for and proposed to aid hearing impaired people by capturing the sound events, including speech, with short descriptive texts (captioning) .

          That’s why in the US Closed Captioning is for hard hearing, and subtitling usually means only dialogue and other languages. While the rest of the world only uses variations of the word subtitling because English rapes and coopts everything it colonizes.

      • criitz@reddthat.com
        52·
        11 months ago

        Cuz the world is messy and language is messier. Not everything fits into neat OCD boxes

      • Apathy Tree@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        11 months ago

        Don’t go into STEM, then.

        It’s everywhere.

        And the definitions in stem fields are often very subtly different, and also different from lay language definitions (like theory in science means something very different than common use)

  • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
    10·
    11 months ago

    Reminds me of the novelisation of Day of the Tentacle that had the title “My Physics Adventure or It’s Never Too Late to Stop Pollution, So Let’s Start Yesterday”.

  • key@lemmy.keychat.orgEnglish
    83·
    11 months ago

    It makes it impossible to search about because most people understand subtitle to mean closed captions, I think.

    I mean search engines just suck nowadays irregardless.

    But feel free to found the “Society to Eliminate Homonyms or A Group of Like-minded Persons Seeking Clarity in the Meaning of Words and Greater Access to the English Language For All Peoples”. Just be careful with the autocorrect in the short title.