Is “awareness” the environmental version of “thoughts and prayers”? Has the situation we were made aware of by her (although she’s just one of a long list of voices from the past 100 years, most of which have been long forgotten) activism made a measurable impact on the actual climate crisis? I’m personally curious what the qualitative power of awareness is.
At bare minimum its to show that there are still groups willing to oppose mass polluters in the hopes that at some point someone with power will make the right call and save the planet.
Is it naive? Quite a bit, but sad complacency isn’t helping much either. As many of these groups are quite young many including Greta may also go into actual politics later in life, then these past incidents serve as proof of authenticity, similar to the pic of Bernie Sanders getting carried away.
Think it was very brave of her to stand up and say that, to say she wants the right to life, to not be forced to inherit a dead planet, and that’s a very bold and self aware statement for a teenager to make. It’s one that obviously made a lot of people uncomfortable because it shoves what we’ve all been complacent in in our faces. To have a child tell us to our faces that we’re all responsible for killing the planet (and especially those in charge) and that it’s their lives we’ve ruined - well that takes a lot of guts. (and it needs to be said)
That’s simple. We just locate the nearest parallel universe where she doesn’t exist and compare the future series of climate data from our universe to that one.
Interdimensional science is going to revolutionize the fields of sociology and economics.
Awareness is oversimplifying it but it’s a necessary first step for any major movement/revolution. What can one hope to achieve if people won’t acknowledge the problem? Greta highlighted the importance of climate change to many people around the world, and I’m sure she’s a role model to many as well. Many more people are plant based/vegan now compared to 5 years ago. Companies are profit driven so every little change from people makes a difference. It’s the power of awareness that can push people to change for their new found beliefs.
We had awareness in the 70’s but we had action then too. We had the clean-air act passed, the clean water act, the EPA created and I’m sure around the same time coutnry’s in the rest of the world also did similar things. Spreading “awareness” today is just self-aggrandizing and benefits no-one but yourself as the figurehead.
Are you implying that she was doing it for the fame? She missed out on school and a lot of normal teenager activities because she prioritised spreading awareness on climate change. Regardless of the reasons why she or anyone is doing it, her impact is undeniable. I think assuming the worst isn’t fair. It’s not like she has been in scandals related to corruption. Many celebrities and politicians are way more full of shit. She is consistently doing what she can for the environment.
To address your other point: Yes, there has been some actions taken in the past. Yes, there has been some awareness on it spread in the past. No one is saying she’s the first one to do so. The point is those actions and bits of awareness wasn’t enough. That’s why we are where we are. That’s why polar caps are melting at record speed. Amazon forest is the smallest it has ever been. (90+% of the space is used for animal farming). That’s why our global climate is hotter and wilder than ever (record high global average temps last month).
If you don’t think these things are an issue then I can see why spreading awareness would feel like a waste of time. However, if that’s the case then I would strongly recommend looking up the effects and potential dangers of the direction we’re headed regarding climate change. Our future generations are fucked.
I mostly agree with your point, but I’m not sure if “awareness” is the right term here. She is helping to spread commitment. She’s more like a coach than she is like a reporter. She helps people who already know about climate change decide to take responsibility for it and do something about it.
You are making an assumption that lack of “awareness” is the problem that needs to be solved. Meanwhile icecaps are melting and mass extinction is occurring, we are already aware of it! Multiple European Governments and energy industries are enabling it! But instead of asking why Germany is still building Coal plants, she is staging fake protests where she “gets arrested” for a photo-op.
That’s exactly why there needs to be enough people to vote for the environment focused government party, if any. There’s no downside to raising awareness when there are still people out there who are in denial of climate change. I did not know about the fake protest arrests. Imo, no one can be perfect in the way their convey their message. Convincing the mass is a difficult thing to do. People will have various opinions on what’s the right way to protest/spread the message. The important thing is that effort is spent, and it’s having an impact. Lastly, we don’t need to focus on one issue at a time as a society. Different groups of people can be responsible for different tasks.
Yeah as much as I hate to use this term, I think a small committee is better suited to handle a complex topic than the entirety of society.
That’s not to say I think committees are great ways of handling things, but that I think a small committee is better at handling things than a large committee.
IMO the only workable solutions to global problems are going to be ones only a few people understand. And not from lack of access to the information, but from lack of time to educate everyone on every problem.
I think I’ve beaten this horse enough. So I’ll just say that while you and I are certainly both environmentalists, I disagree that people like Greta doing what she has been doing, is very useful since it takes a fatal systematic problem and individualizes it for, imo, dubious reasons.
Maybe even if the individual responses are
futile in their direct effect, they can still help build a sense of commitment to the eventual solution.
Say a person gives up eating meat. That itself might not fix the problem, even when summed across all the people who make that choice, but the act of sacrificing something in their life helps to establish their identity as someone willing to put forward effort.
IMO the right solution is centrally-imposed taxes on carbon extraction, subsidies on sequestration, and modulation of those financial incentives to whatever numbers necessary to actively manage atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.
I think that individual solutions are a waste of time and can even be dangerous because they can create a sense of complacency. But I think psychologically, they could possibly be part of the path toward people doing all the hard work to get that system of taxes and subsidies in place.
Kinda like how punching a bag can get you trained up to punch out an opponent. Giving up meat becomes an exercise, rather than the work itself.
My sources tell me it’s because of anti-nuclear sentiment, (and also because of sudden lack of access to Russian gas), but I’ve got source bias and my sources haven’t done an in-depth analysis it’s always mentioned offhand in some bigger message context.
I think I see your point, awareness alone might be just as you asked, but for some she also gave the courage to act on that awareness, to commit themselves to take steps towards progress and away from practices that harm an entire planet while benefiting very few, by supporting public policies focusing on such and raising more awareness. I’ve certainly benefited from having a personal vehicle and modern industry but those that profit immensely from them should be held responsible with proper regulation and responsibility to cleaning up messes and compensating the lives and environments ruined as a result. Too many weak and corrupt individuals have again and again taken the attractive “deal with the devil” to look the other way in order to secure something they desire. We are all capable of corruption and we are all capable of integrity. I have hope for the future because of people inspiring me like, civil rights leaders; MLK and Bernie Sanders, abolitionists; Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass, and finally who I see as everyday people like; Greta Thunberg and Daryl Davis.
Pretty much. Has about the same impact as awareness, thoughts and prayers. Some people are satisfied with saying “I’m aware of the problem” and think that will have some sort of impact.
Fighting with politicians has not accomplished anything. You know who has? The anonymous kid who plants trees. The kid who pics up garbage left on the road. Trust me. Everyone is “aware”. You can’t live in modern culture and not be aware of climate change.
So sure. She has made a lot of people feel good because conservatives hate her. But is that an accomplishment? Conservatives hate everyone that’s not a conservative. They smear everyone they can to get their way or to stomp out any chance that people will start taking action.
Downvoting me doesn’t change the reality they want to ignore just because it feels better to do so.
We’re way beyond saving by planting trees. We’re way beyond saving by picking up trash on the streets. This is a worldwide systemic issue that can NOT be solved by individuals reducing their carbon footprint, we as a species need a negative carbon footprint to survive this century, or even these next few decades, or even these next few years. We have a transport problem, we have a factories problem, we have an affluence problem, a conglomerates problem, we have a capitalism problem, we have a “progress” problem.
It’s ridiculous to get angry at a child that sees all this and cries out in desperation, most of us will die before she and her generation does, and they’re going to be left with a mess beyond repair. And it’s not because Timmy ate a burger or because Anne didn’t pick up trash in a park, nor is it because Bob commutes using a car, it’s because our economic system demands “progress” at all cost right this moment. It’s because our cities around the world prioritize cars and cheap individualistic transportation. It’s because prices need to be stable, so let’s throw products away to create a limit on supply. It’s because it’s more profitable to implement planned obsolescence than it is to implement renewability and durability into products. This is clearly not something that can be solved by a single person, whether that person is an everyday anon who does his or her best to reduce their carbon footpront, or whether that is a kid addressing the world leaders while in distress about her future life in this world. The change that needs to happen is revolution, and the world is too complacent and too scared of taking such actions to save itself, and I can’t really blame people for it, even if we should.
I’m not angry at the child. Conservatives are, but they are angry at people for anything. Like wearing the wrong style of clothes.
Yes, we are way past planting trees and picking up garbage as far as stopping the very abrupt changes that are coming. We are way past everything.
But those kids that are out planting trees and picking up trash are going to have a head start. Because their environmental awareness almost certainly extends beyond those simple skills.
What they offer is the example of action. Not arguing with politicians. They use their words to teach and train others who need their skills, knowledge and outlook.
Look past the culture of celebrity worship if you want to see the ones who will make an impact.
They will be the ones we will be aided by when the time comes.
You know who has? The anonymous kid who plants trees.
No. They haven’t had a measurable impact. Especially if they’re the kind of kid who drives a car somewhere to go plant those trees and then drives back.
The kid who pics up garbage left on the road.
Making it so that people don’t see the garbage building up, and feel OK about just tossing their stuff out their car windows.
Is “awareness” the environmental version of “thoughts and prayers”? Has the situation we were made aware of by her (although she’s just one of a long list of voices from the past 100 years, most of which have been long forgotten) activism made a measurable impact on the actual climate crisis? I’m personally curious what the qualitative power of awareness is.
At bare minimum its to show that there are still groups willing to oppose mass polluters in the hopes that at some point someone with power will make the right call and save the planet.
Is it naive? Quite a bit, but sad complacency isn’t helping much either. As many of these groups are quite young many including Greta may also go into actual politics later in life, then these past incidents serve as proof of authenticity, similar to the pic of Bernie Sanders getting carried away.
Think it was very brave of her to stand up and say that, to say she wants the right to life, to not be forced to inherit a dead planet, and that’s a very bold and self aware statement for a teenager to make. It’s one that obviously made a lot of people uncomfortable because it shoves what we’ve all been complacent in in our faces. To have a child tell us to our faces that we’re all responsible for killing the planet (and especially those in charge) and that it’s their lives we’ve ruined - well that takes a lot of guts. (and it needs to be said)
The issue of climate change is routinely one of the most important issues for young people, so perhaps she played a role in that.
The question itself is pretty useless because how could we possibly quantify a single activist’s contribution to a global issue?
That’s simple. We just locate the nearest parallel universe where she doesn’t exist and compare the future series of climate data from our universe to that one.
Interdimensional science is going to revolutionize the fields of sociology and economics.
The nearest PU will crash the game. What you really want is the nearest QPU.
Awareness is oversimplifying it but it’s a necessary first step for any major movement/revolution. What can one hope to achieve if people won’t acknowledge the problem? Greta highlighted the importance of climate change to many people around the world, and I’m sure she’s a role model to many as well. Many more people are plant based/vegan now compared to 5 years ago. Companies are profit driven so every little change from people makes a difference. It’s the power of awareness that can push people to change for their new found beliefs.
We had awareness in the 70’s but we had action then too. We had the clean-air act passed, the clean water act, the EPA created and I’m sure around the same time coutnry’s in the rest of the world also did similar things. Spreading “awareness” today is just self-aggrandizing and benefits no-one but yourself as the figurehead.
Are you implying that she was doing it for the fame? She missed out on school and a lot of normal teenager activities because she prioritised spreading awareness on climate change. Regardless of the reasons why she or anyone is doing it, her impact is undeniable. I think assuming the worst isn’t fair. It’s not like she has been in scandals related to corruption. Many celebrities and politicians are way more full of shit. She is consistently doing what she can for the environment.
To address your other point: Yes, there has been some actions taken in the past. Yes, there has been some awareness on it spread in the past. No one is saying she’s the first one to do so. The point is those actions and bits of awareness wasn’t enough. That’s why we are where we are. That’s why polar caps are melting at record speed. Amazon forest is the smallest it has ever been. (90+% of the space is used for animal farming). That’s why our global climate is hotter and wilder than ever (record high global average temps last month).
If you don’t think these things are an issue then I can see why spreading awareness would feel like a waste of time. However, if that’s the case then I would strongly recommend looking up the effects and potential dangers of the direction we’re headed regarding climate change. Our future generations are fucked.
I mostly agree with your point, but I’m not sure if “awareness” is the right term here. She is helping to spread commitment. She’s more like a coach than she is like a reporter. She helps people who already know about climate change decide to take responsibility for it and do something about it.
You are making an assumption that lack of “awareness” is the problem that needs to be solved. Meanwhile icecaps are melting and mass extinction is occurring, we are already aware of it! Multiple European Governments and energy industries are enabling it! But instead of asking why Germany is still building Coal plants, she is staging fake protests where she “gets arrested” for a photo-op.
That’s exactly why there needs to be enough people to vote for the environment focused government party, if any. There’s no downside to raising awareness when there are still people out there who are in denial of climate change. I did not know about the fake protest arrests. Imo, no one can be perfect in the way their convey their message. Convincing the mass is a difficult thing to do. People will have various opinions on what’s the right way to protest/spread the message. The important thing is that effort is spent, and it’s having an impact. Lastly, we don’t need to focus on one issue at a time as a society. Different groups of people can be responsible for different tasks.
Yeah as much as I hate to use this term, I think a small committee is better suited to handle a complex topic than the entirety of society.
That’s not to say I think committees are great ways of handling things, but that I think a small committee is better at handling things than a large committee.
IMO the only workable solutions to global problems are going to be ones only a few people understand. And not from lack of access to the information, but from lack of time to educate everyone on every problem.
I think I’ve beaten this horse enough. So I’ll just say that while you and I are certainly both environmentalists, I disagree that people like Greta doing what she has been doing, is very useful since it takes a fatal systematic problem and individualizes it for, imo, dubious reasons.
Maybe even if the individual responses are futile in their direct effect, they can still help build a sense of commitment to the eventual solution.
Say a person gives up eating meat. That itself might not fix the problem, even when summed across all the people who make that choice, but the act of sacrificing something in their life helps to establish their identity as someone willing to put forward effort.
IMO the right solution is centrally-imposed taxes on carbon extraction, subsidies on sequestration, and modulation of those financial incentives to whatever numbers necessary to actively manage atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.
I think that individual solutions are a waste of time and can even be dangerous because they can create a sense of complacency. But I think psychologically, they could possibly be part of the path toward people doing all the hard work to get that system of taxes and subsidies in place.
Kinda like how punching a bag can get you trained up to punch out an opponent. Giving up meat becomes an exercise, rather than the work itself.
Why is Germany building more coal plants?
My sources tell me it’s because of anti-nuclear sentiment, (and also because of sudden lack of access to Russian gas), but I’ve got source bias and my sources haven’t done an in-depth analysis it’s always mentioned offhand in some bigger message context.
I don’t know. I assume because they needed to make up the gap from shutting down their nuclear plants and coal is cheap and pretty fast to get going, plus doesn’t require any “exotic” manufacturing like solar/wind need. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts
For a kid? Yes
I think I see your point, awareness alone might be just as you asked, but for some she also gave the courage to act on that awareness, to commit themselves to take steps towards progress and away from practices that harm an entire planet while benefiting very few, by supporting public policies focusing on such and raising more awareness. I’ve certainly benefited from having a personal vehicle and modern industry but those that profit immensely from them should be held responsible with proper regulation and responsibility to cleaning up messes and compensating the lives and environments ruined as a result. Too many weak and corrupt individuals have again and again taken the attractive “deal with the devil” to look the other way in order to secure something they desire. We are all capable of corruption and we are all capable of integrity. I have hope for the future because of people inspiring me like, civil rights leaders; MLK and Bernie Sanders, abolitionists; Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass, and finally who I see as everyday people like; Greta Thunberg and Daryl Davis.
This site quickly turned into reddit-style bandwagoning and downvoting stuff you disagree with, huh
Pretty much. Has about the same impact as awareness, thoughts and prayers. Some people are satisfied with saying “I’m aware of the problem” and think that will have some sort of impact.
Fighting with politicians has not accomplished anything. You know who has? The anonymous kid who plants trees. The kid who pics up garbage left on the road. Trust me. Everyone is “aware”. You can’t live in modern culture and not be aware of climate change.
So sure. She has made a lot of people feel good because conservatives hate her. But is that an accomplishment? Conservatives hate everyone that’s not a conservative. They smear everyone they can to get their way or to stomp out any chance that people will start taking action.
Downvoting me doesn’t change the reality they want to ignore just because it feels better to do so.
We’re way beyond saving by planting trees. We’re way beyond saving by picking up trash on the streets. This is a worldwide systemic issue that can NOT be solved by individuals reducing their carbon footprint, we as a species need a negative carbon footprint to survive this century, or even these next few decades, or even these next few years. We have a transport problem, we have a factories problem, we have an affluence problem, a conglomerates problem, we have a capitalism problem, we have a “progress” problem.
It’s ridiculous to get angry at a child that sees all this and cries out in desperation, most of us will die before she and her generation does, and they’re going to be left with a mess beyond repair. And it’s not because Timmy ate a burger or because Anne didn’t pick up trash in a park, nor is it because Bob commutes using a car, it’s because our economic system demands “progress” at all cost right this moment. It’s because our cities around the world prioritize cars and cheap individualistic transportation. It’s because prices need to be stable, so let’s throw products away to create a limit on supply. It’s because it’s more profitable to implement planned obsolescence than it is to implement renewability and durability into products. This is clearly not something that can be solved by a single person, whether that person is an everyday anon who does his or her best to reduce their carbon footpront, or whether that is a kid addressing the world leaders while in distress about her future life in this world. The change that needs to happen is revolution, and the world is too complacent and too scared of taking such actions to save itself, and I can’t really blame people for it, even if we should.
I’m not angry at the child. Conservatives are, but they are angry at people for anything. Like wearing the wrong style of clothes.
Yes, we are way past planting trees and picking up garbage as far as stopping the very abrupt changes that are coming. We are way past everything.
But those kids that are out planting trees and picking up trash are going to have a head start. Because their environmental awareness almost certainly extends beyond those simple skills.
What they offer is the example of action. Not arguing with politicians. They use their words to teach and train others who need their skills, knowledge and outlook.
Look past the culture of celebrity worship if you want to see the ones who will make an impact.
They will be the ones we will be aided by when the time comes.
No. They haven’t had a measurable impact. Especially if they’re the kind of kid who drives a car somewhere to go plant those trees and then drives back.
Making it so that people don’t see the garbage building up, and feel OK about just tossing their stuff out their car windows.
It’s probably her affectiveness. If she wasn’t getting attention, they wouldn’t bother to oppose her.