The 1% how much taxes they pay
You’re too generous for not making it a yes/no question
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
The official report of the Chinese government from 1989 (translated here) shows that more than 1000 military and police vehicles were burned by rioters. And 200+ soldiers and policemen were murdered. Just imagine how much restraint the military and the police had shown.
Wait, how could the protesters kill so many soldiers? Because, until the very end, Chinese soldiers were unarmed. Most of the times, they didn’t even have helmets or batons.
What exactly happened in Beijing in 1989 that lead to this bloody affair?
The answer lies with two key figures: General Secretary Hu Yaobang, and Ambassador James Lilley.
Hu Yaobang was a member of the communist party of China and was one of the three major rightist-reformers that set China on the path its on today, the other two being Zhao Ziyang, and Deng Xiaoping respectively. Hu Yaobang as a reformer was also a spokesman for the intelligentsia and by the end of his life was well-beloved by the youth of China (we’re talking below 30 here, folks) therefore when he passed away the youth of China organized public grieving events with the largest occurring in Beijing. This is to say if Hu didn’t die from old age that year, none of this would’ve happened that year. This is to also say this event had nothing to do with “freedom” or “democracy” or whatever pigshit your favorite rush limburger propagandist spoon feeds you, it was a funeral service that was hijacked to unseat the Chinese government - which so coincidentally is a speciality of the agency the second person we’re talking about.
Ambassador James Lilley, the son of an american expat oil executive for Standard Oil, was a CIA agent operating in east Asia from 1951 to 1981 with little officially known about him (I know for a fact he’s fucked around Korea and Laos, so it’s not a stretch to say he’s likely been involved with every conflict that occured during his official career). In his “post” CIA career he’s acted as a diplomatic liason to the provice of Taiwan, a teacher to future state department ghouls, and “helped” South Korea end its military dicatorship by helping the military win the election “democratically”, and abruptly five days after the death of General Secretary Hu Yaobang James Lilley was appointed as the US Ambassador to China by also former CIA ghoul and president of the United States George H. W. Bush. What an astounding coincidence.
And just a reminder. In communist China, you can be a pain in the ass by obstructing tanks trying to exist a parade, argue with the commander, then get rushed away by other normal people going “dude what the Hell’s your problem”
Lmao was just about to say, one of these is not like the other.
You useful idiots are going to be among the first against the wall to find out about China’s mercy I imagine. You’ll demand to fellate the firing squad beforehand.
idgi what are you trying to say here?
China hunts down useful idiots? All their firing squad members have penises? The Great Wall is used for executions?
When the People’s Liberation Army makes landfall on the western shores of North America, I will be here to greet them as heroes
Useful idiots believing CBS, NY Times, Reuters and BBC?
Thank you, very frustrated that I had to scroll so far down to find this with regard to the so-called Tiananmen Square “massacre”
Did you even read your own articles or did you just cherry-pick quotes? For instance the conclusion of the BBC article:
There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.
The shorthand we often use of the “Tiananmen Square protests” of 1989 gives the impression that this was just a Beijing issue. It was not.
Protests occurred in almost every city in China (even in a town on the edge of the Gobi desert).
What happened in 1989 was by far the most widespread pro-democracy upheaval in communist China’s history. It was also by far the bloodiest suppression of peaceful dissent.
deleted by creator
Why not educate yourself instead of just regurgitating nonsense
ha, “rumble”. is it ever going to dawn on you that all your grayzone, jimmy dore, glenn greenwald, caitlin johnstone, et cetera bullshit that claims to be leftist is funded by right-wing billionaire peter thiel, and run out the same offices as trump’s “truth social”?
useful idiots indeed.
What does the site the content is hosted on have to do with the actual content which you obviously did not watch. Utter brain rot on display here. It’s an interview with the US puppet who started the protest and what she herself is saying about it. The fact that you didn’t address that and went off on an idiotic rant about rumble really says all we need to know about your intellectual capacity.
Great job comrade, president XiJing Ping will personally give you an offer to be an officer in Uigyur internment camps.
WuMao.
You can tell the poster is American because they blame the government involved for all of these except the US, where they blamed the CIA.
You’re right, as an American I knew the specific government agency that overthrew foreign governments. But I don’t mean to imply that the U.S. government is blameless.
I agree with the sentiment, I was just amused that your bias was showing.
Saying the CIA isn’t indicative of bias
In context it does. That’s how I correctly guessed they were American.
…It really isn’t, but if that’s what you want to tell yourself, I really can’t stop you. It’s still incorrect either way.
They have an American bias because they are American therefore they could be more specific about the American centric piece of information. Your lack of literacy doesn’t change the definition of the word bias.
Silly internet troll, everybody the world over knows about the CIA American or not. But you do you.
I mean the CIA is the us government
No you see it was just a few bad apples.
The CIA is part of the US government.
Don’t ask OP about the use of prepositions
The US about indigenous Americans.
Oh wait, they made hundreds of movies about killing them.
That really is one of the most absurd things about the American Empire. They’ll come and destroy your people, taint and corrupt your land with bones and blood, bomb you back into the stone age, and then make a trillion dollar budget film about how it made them feel sad. The othering is so powerful that emotions only exist within the walls of capital
But I wouldn’t blame this. The people making the movies hasn’t been in common with the crime.
The Australian’s about their treatment of
aboriginesfirst nation AustraliansThe Irish about mother and baby homes.
China about Uyghurs
Didn’t a bunch of Muslim countries actually ask China about Uyghurs (and even visit Xinjiang) and they left unanimously content with the response?
Yes. The only country worried about it is the same one that’s actually killed millions of Muslims over the last 20 years
Israel or America?
Yes
They only did it to bring them democracy!
Well yeah, of course I’d trust the experts in genocide over countries that have no experience.
should be easy enough for you to provide a legitimate source to this claim.
please note the word “legitimate”
"The five-day visit took place last week and included envoys from countries including Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen and Pakistan. The >delegation visited the provincial capital Urumqi in addition to Kashgar and Aksu prefectures. They were met by Ma Xingrui, secretary of the >Party Committee of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
A spokesperson for theFforeign Ministry, Hua Chunying said the diplomats visited mosques, Islamic schools, museums, old city renovation, >grassroots communities, technology enterprises, green development and rural revitalisation projects.
“Members of the delegation expressed that the Chinese government adheres to the people-centred approach and has made great >achievements in promoting the governance and development of Xinjiang,” she said." Algeria’s Ambassador to China, Hassane Rabehi, was quoted by local media as saying, “The fruit here is so sweet, just like the life of the >people here”, adding that he got to know the “real situation” of Xinjiang, where the rights of people of all ethnic groups are well protected, >said reports.
Following the event, a press release by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that envoys expressed that “freedom of religious belief and >various rights of Muslims are duly guaranteed.” And that what the delegation saw and heard along the way “is completely different from what >some Western media reported.”
Per https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/middle-east-monitor/
“MEMO generally supports Islamist positions” “the Middle East Monitor promotes a strongly pro-Muslim Brotherhood and pro-Hamas viewpoint” " We could not find any instances of the Middle East Monitor failing fact checks"
The source in this article is a direct quote from government officials both China and from the countries that sent the delegates. If in fact there was a “genocide” I would expect a “pro-Muslim” news outlet to agree with what western media is spouting.
Does this pass your legitimacy test? If not, why?
I bet they did according to Xi and the CCP, but not in reality.
Even if they did, they’re probably faking it because trade with China is more important to them than human rights, just like the US and Saudi Arabia or the other Western countries and the US…
Russians about Crimea and Donbass
australia has much more shit going… like storing asylumseekers in some far away islands
“aborigines” is not a great word to use these days. It’s generally seen as pretty offensive to Indigenous Australians as it’s a bit dehumanising and comes from colinisers who treated people like animals.
Better to go with “First Nations people”, “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people” or “Indigenous Australians.”
But yes, they’ve been treated (and in many cases continue to be treated) pretty horribly.
Thanks. I kinda knew it wasn’t great, but didn’t know the correct term.
The one that confuses me, is the statement about the Irish.
I guess you could say ask the Catholic church about Irish mother and baby homes. But the meme was doing nations.
Blaming the Catholic Church is a good way to start but the argument that Irish people were led astray by the Church is pretty much the same argument as those who seek to divorce the Wehrmacht from complicity in SS atrocities. In both cases the answer is that they shared vital infrastructure with each other and ranking officials could have stopped the excesses, which they had full knowledge of, if they’d have disagreed with it.
Ask them about their tax avoidance schemes for big tech
Never ask a Lemmy user where they’ve hidden the good posts.
“Was there a massacre in Tiananmen Square?”
—“No.”
“Were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?”
—“…Ermh…”
“Ahem. I am asking you if people were killed in the area immediately surrounding Tiananmen Square, even if nobody was killed in the square itself.”
—“The protesters in Tiananmen Square left after negotiations with the PLA. There was no bloodshed in Tiananmen Square.”
“I understand that, but were people killed elsewhere in Beijing?”
—“Nowhere in Beijing were student protestors specifically targeted.”
“Well, were non-students targeted, and were any students injured or killed without being targeted?”
—“Hey did you know that the Three Gorges Dam is the world’s largest—”
“Gongchandang, my friend, I am begging you.”
—“…Force may have been used when provoked by attacks.”
“May force have also been used unprovoked? Could it have been that the protesters felt like they were provoked first, because you were sending tanks past the barricades that they’d put up?”
—“I mean… you know… uhh…”
“Gongchandang. Were you scared that the occupation of Beijing and the potential of a workers’ revolt would threaten the survival of socialism in China, by presenting a still-socialist alternative to your rule, because societal division particularly among the less politically literate could be (and was) exploited by outside forces?”
—“OUR YOUTH ARE VULNERABLE TO IMPERIALIST PROPAGANDA, OK‽ ALSO, TANK MAN DIDN’T GET RUN OVER. SEE. HE WAS PULLED AWAY BY A PASSERBY. NOT RUN OVER.”
I don’t know if I would have used Tiananmen Square.
The Uighur re-education cities seems far more fitting.
If these “cities” exist which are claimed to have imprisoned millions of people where are the photos?
Do you realize how much physical space that many people takes up in addition to supplying them?
Or the invasion of Vietnam… Or the annexation of Tibet… Or the bullying of Southeast Asian countries… Or the great leap forward… Or the communist land reforms… Or the anti counterrevolutionary campaigns
The CCP leaves you no end of really good options to pick here.
Yeah tiananmen is such a meme at this point. You can tell when people base their entire politics on memes and don’t bother reading and searching on their own. Tiananmen is an issue they won’t step mentioning.
You don’t criticize China for Tiananmen Square? HUH?
I think the other comment on this thread addressed it pretty well: https://hexbear.net/comment/4003110
I’m pretty skeptical about taking political positions from memes, and when I’ve done my own research on this, I failed to find valid reasons that this issue should get the attention that the Internet gives it. There are many other issues that are worth my attention. This one isn’t.
Mmm hexbear comment what a credible resource
Plenty of sources provided in there (ny times, reuters, etc), but if you were the kind to examine evidence, you wouldn’t be here anyways.
From the very first article that braindead comment quoted:
But there’s no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square, and on the way to it — mostly in the western part of Beijing. Maybe, for some, comfort can be taken in the fact that the government denies that, too.
From the second article:
There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre … What happened in 1989 was by far the most widespread pro-democracy upheaval in communist China’s history. It was also by far the bloodiest suppression of peaceful dissent.
but if you were smart enough to actually read them, you wouldn’t be denying it anyways.
I love how you ignored everything in the article except what could possibly agree with your viewpoint. On your first quote, the link they cite does not exist anymore. In the video you linked, I hear gunshots but don’t see people running away from them. As someone from a country that saw unrest and shooting at protests, I can tell you that people immediately start running when they’re shot at, emptying the area. Not continue to March nonchalantly.
In the end, I want to conclude with saying that I didn’t deny that anyone died (although the comment I linked does seem to imply that. My apologies for not clarifying, as I was only using them to back up my opinion). What I said in the original comment is that it is not an issue worth my attention. I’ve seen and read about so many government rerpression, and this is far from being in the top 10. It’s an unnecessarily magnified issue.
Not even going to click on that, the domain tells me everything I need to know considering the topic we talk about!
I mean, it’s a variety of sourced quotes from respected journalists who were there. You probably should read them all, if only so you can point out to the Hexbears where they mention all the people who died in the area around the Square. The sources mostly say “no one got gunned down literally in the Square.”
In any case, it’s fucking weird to obsess over it. It’s like trying to give Biden crap about the Kent State Massacre while he’s rounding up all the Mormons.
Plenty of evidence cited there from multiple sources. You don’t have to open it, but the evidence is there shall you question it.
Abother user made a very good comment about this under my post, might be worth checking out!
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
Sounds like a full blown insurrection.
I knew this was going to be the only one people tried to deny in this thread, but I didn’t figure it would be OP
One of these is not like the other
The Canadian government about the canadian indian residential school system
The Iran government about Salman Rushdie
The Mexican government about Ayotzinapas 43
The British government about their museums
The German government about their car manufacturers.
The Indian government about Aasif Sultan
The Russian government about how much the war in Ukraine should have lasted.
And many more…
Do let me know btw if you know of anymore of this.
Edit:
Aded russia
To be fair, Germans largely don’t deny what happened. Being a holocaust denier can even get you into prison. IHMO that is how you should handle such matters.
Meanwhile, denying other genocides gets you a mod spot on lemmy.ml apparently
Yes i know but i couldnt come up with a simmilar example about them. If you know of a better one about Germany do let me know and ill change it. Im being frendly about this btw, sorry if i sound condesending, thats not my intention.
Don’t ask the German government about smog control in diesel cars?
This sounds good, gonna use it.
Should probably be a german company instead of it‘s government
Never ask them where VW produces cars!
Don’t ask the German people what kind of porn is best.
Maybe the point is that not all countries are equally bad and belong on the list
Boy, the museums are really just the very tip of the iceberg for the Brits.
A list about things to not ask them for would be huge.
Never forget about the vicious emu war in Australia either, our shameful defeat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
Wales added another shameful australian defeat about 5 hours ago
How a person reacts to being asked about the version of these things most close to them is telling. If they get defensive and deny the event happened, I would hesitate to trust their opinion on other things. Clearly that person bases their opinions on what they want to be true rather than reality. That’s the kind of person whose ideology would likely lead to another event to be ashamed of. If, on the other hand, they admit it was a horrible thing and agree that people should be educated on it and that steps should be taken to prevent it from ever happening again, then I’m more likely to take their opinion seriously and believe that they can be part of the conversations we need to happen to create a better world.
Was about to comment “the germans about ww2” but then remembered that we are quite open about that time. Wouldn’t have made much sense either as there would be no use in evem trying to hide it
Genocide of the Ovaherero and Nama peoples in Namibia by Germans.
That’s why it’s so abhorrent that voices from the right but not only from the right get louder, that demand an end to the relatively good remembrance culture here in Germany. I hate the: “it was so long ago, it wasn’t us” talking points. It’s the first step towards forgetting, historic revisionism and possibly repeating the things that were done.
“Germany about colonialism” would be a better fit.
Also the german sentiment about WW2 is something that survivors for ever, students in the 60s/70s and antifascists right now fought for / are fighting for. Considering we have parts of the country that vote 30%+ for members of a nazi party the sentiment could shift really fast and atleast from my perspective considerably shifted already
“Denazification” would be another solid choice. For example, the post-war career of Hans Martin Schleyer
i think you are wrong here. had colonialism in school…you can talk to ppl about it.
Colonialism is not a controversial topic and covered in school books
covered in school books
Thats not really my standard. I would like Germany to actually do stuff like returning stolen cultural goods and paying reperations instead of dodging responsibilty
Well, we can add French and Brits about Munich agreement.
Don’t ask the French (Police) what happened in 17 October 1961
TIL !
