I’m saying they should not get to the point that they walk in the door. If they call, correct immediately.
It should be corrected, by Dad, prior to a call, rather than used as a sales funnel, which is the suggestion.
Honest mistakes happen, but using an honest mistake to purposefully continue to mislead to get them in the door and then correct them is a bait and switch.
When did I ever say if they call you not to correct it immediately? Show me.
The entire point is that the first time they talk to you you have no idea that they are expecting a ridiculous rate. So you clarify the situation and if you’re lucky it turns into a job anyway. Explain to me how that is deceptive.
How do you get them in the door to tell them without the call? Youre advising using an error to your advantage to massage someone to be a client using a bait and switch tactic.
It may not have been thenolan, being a genuine error, but that’s your plan to take advantage of it. If they purposely gave the wrong amount, would it be bait and switch in your view?
I am listening to what you are saying. ok, so you did imply this is not the first contact. Just using a phrase to do so. Obviously you meant something different.
Walking out the door, also a phrase. Again, one that’s situational. It means they are on site. For talking on the phone, I’d say hang up. So again, implying its not the first contact.
Look, I also think it can be correctly handled, but your whole post makes it sound like a pushy sales narrative that is deceptive. Youre not outright calling for deception but the implication is there. I’m not the only one noticing it.
Maybe your choice of words is wrong, but when someone tells you who they are, listen.
What did I do that was “pushy” or “deceptive”? I am saying “well they’re on the phone/in person/whatever now so may as well explain the mistake, tell them your rate, and offer to do it anyway.” How on earth you object this is baffling to me. The point is it’s still an opportunity for both parties, not an opportunity to lie to get what you want. I can’t possibly be more clear now.
You’re just wrong dude. It’s not a crime to misinterpret someone but stop telling me what I am and mean when I am sitting here telling you exactly what I meant. I’ve clarified this plenty of times for you. Catch up or move on. You’re saying “when someone tells you” yada yada, well everyone else here gets it except you so maybe realize you’re pulling a principle skinner and made a mistake that’s turning into an ego issue.
You’ve convinced yourself I’m some sort of sleazy car salesman or some other form of asshole and won’t let go of it.
Just like in this discussion, youre changing the narrative deceptively.
Now they are on the phone. They weren’t before, that stage had passed.
Sure, you are now retroactively changing your intent but it doesn’t change the meaning of your words.
You say listen to what youre saying. I did.
If you said, when they call advise of the current rate, is agree. Your version seems to be past that stage. In no world does anyone think that you would be obliged to honor the quote. So either your advice is not really advice, to do what is normal and advise them of your actual rate. Or, as appears more likely, you want to leverage the mistake using their sunken cost of time after arranging a meet, knowing in advance their expectations dont match the rate.
If everyone else gets it why is there another comment calling you a LinkedIn lunatic? Its not a term I would use, but I see their point. Your comment is one of two things:
A pointless comment offering no advice as of course they would clarify.
A comment to say leverage it to your advantage, using deceptive tactics.
Walk it back all you want but in context its clear to me which was the intent. Perhaps you meant no I’ll will, but it reads as exploitative. In quoting for any kind of work, but especially programming based work, there is a knowledge differential. This justifies fees, but the same knowledge differential is often used to take advantage of those with no concept of the work involved.
Oh my god dude move on. I’m not clarifying again and I’m not reading this mess. Everyone else clearly gets this. Just think I’m an asshole and move on or recognize you’re being a Skinner. I’m not doing this anymore.
Dudes just saying you can be deceptive without intending it. Its not the craziest idea is it?
To avoid abusing the sunk cost fallacy, it would be best to tell the dad that is not the correct rate, and to please reach out to their friend with the correction.
No chance of someone feeling like they might as well choose youre higher rate because they are already talking to you.
The guy literally explained he was using sales idioms and you are taking it like someone is actually trying to lock prospective clients in. If he told you they decided to get off the pot instead of walk out the door would you assume he’s a voyeur watching them poop?
I’m saying they should not get to the point that they walk in the door. If they call, correct immediately.
It should be corrected, by Dad, prior to a call, rather than used as a sales funnel, which is the suggestion.
Honest mistakes happen, but using an honest mistake to purposefully continue to mislead to get them in the door and then correct them is a bait and switch.
When did I ever say if they call you not to correct it immediately? Show me.
The entire point is that the first time they talk to you you have no idea that they are expecting a ridiculous rate. So you clarify the situation and if you’re lucky it turns into a job anyway. Explain to me how that is deceptive.
How do you get them in the door to tell them without the call? Youre advising using an error to your advantage to massage someone to be a client using a bait and switch tactic.
It may not have been thenolan, being a genuine error, but that’s your plan to take advantage of it. If they purposely gave the wrong amount, would it be bait and switch in your view?
Way to go on the straw man, though.
My dude “get them in the door” is an expression. I am not saying you lie to them on the phone to get them to show up in person.
Also I have repeatedly said not to deceive them. At some point you need to stop telling me what I said and listen to what I’m actually saying.
I am listening to what you are saying. ok, so you did imply this is not the first contact. Just using a phrase to do so. Obviously you meant something different.
Walking out the door, also a phrase. Again, one that’s situational. It means they are on site. For talking on the phone, I’d say hang up. So again, implying its not the first contact.
Look, I also think it can be correctly handled, but your whole post makes it sound like a pushy sales narrative that is deceptive. Youre not outright calling for deception but the implication is there. I’m not the only one noticing it.
Maybe your choice of words is wrong, but when someone tells you who they are, listen.
What did I do that was “pushy” or “deceptive”? I am saying “well they’re on the phone/in person/whatever now so may as well explain the mistake, tell them your rate, and offer to do it anyway.” How on earth you object this is baffling to me. The point is it’s still an opportunity for both parties, not an opportunity to lie to get what you want. I can’t possibly be more clear now.
You’re just wrong dude. It’s not a crime to misinterpret someone but stop telling me what I am and mean when I am sitting here telling you exactly what I meant. I’ve clarified this plenty of times for you. Catch up or move on. You’re saying “when someone tells you” yada yada, well everyone else here gets it except you so maybe realize you’re pulling a principle skinner and made a mistake that’s turning into an ego issue. You’ve convinced yourself I’m some sort of sleazy car salesman or some other form of asshole and won’t let go of it.
Just like in this discussion, youre changing the narrative deceptively.
Now they are on the phone. They weren’t before, that stage had passed.
Sure, you are now retroactively changing your intent but it doesn’t change the meaning of your words.
You say listen to what youre saying. I did.
If you said, when they call advise of the current rate, is agree. Your version seems to be past that stage. In no world does anyone think that you would be obliged to honor the quote. So either your advice is not really advice, to do what is normal and advise them of your actual rate. Or, as appears more likely, you want to leverage the mistake using their sunken cost of time after arranging a meet, knowing in advance their expectations dont match the rate.
If everyone else gets it why is there another comment calling you a LinkedIn lunatic? Its not a term I would use, but I see their point. Your comment is one of two things: A pointless comment offering no advice as of course they would clarify. A comment to say leverage it to your advantage, using deceptive tactics.
Walk it back all you want but in context its clear to me which was the intent. Perhaps you meant no I’ll will, but it reads as exploitative. In quoting for any kind of work, but especially programming based work, there is a knowledge differential. This justifies fees, but the same knowledge differential is often used to take advantage of those with no concept of the work involved.
Oh my god dude move on. I’m not clarifying again and I’m not reading this mess. Everyone else clearly gets this. Just think I’m an asshole and move on or recognize you’re being a Skinner. I’m not doing this anymore.
Dudes just saying you can be deceptive without intending it. Its not the craziest idea is it?
To avoid abusing the sunk cost fallacy, it would be best to tell the dad that is not the correct rate, and to please reach out to their friend with the correction.
No chance of someone feeling like they might as well choose youre higher rate because they are already talking to you.
The guy literally explained he was using sales idioms and you are taking it like someone is actually trying to lock prospective clients in. If he told you they decided to get off the pot instead of walk out the door would you assume he’s a voyeur watching them poop?
Their idioms have implications beyond what he’s saying. He’s either changing his story or doesn’t fully understand them.nor my point.
Given the lady doth protest so much, my money would be on retrospective shanging of the story, not clarification.