Fediverse has emerged as the popular choice when people look for Twitter alternatives. Personally I found Mastodon was like the early days of Twitter, without half as much toxicity.
However, Fediverse comprises various instances operated by different people. Users sometimes need to switch between different instances, which can be annoying and challenging to manage effectively. I also feel it lacks the social media vibe.
Similarly, decentralisation, as seen in peer-to-peer networks, also emphasizes privacy and freedom of expression.
While exploring decentralised networks such as Nostr, Scuttlebutt, and WireMin, I found that Nostr has the highest level of recognition, whereas Scuttlebutt and WireMin have relatively small user bases currently. I believe their true value will only surface when they get big in the future. But the question is: will they indeed get big? Will decentralisation actually work?
Will Fediverse be the one to trigger the revolution and replace Twitter or Decentralisation?
What are your thoughts on this matter?
I don’t understand your post, I’m sorry to say. The fediverse is decentralized, after all. Or what are you trying to say?
Its not exactly decentralized. Yes its splitted across several servers, but these servers still centralizes the users/data. In order for us to truly say decentralized, each user must keep their own data and no other authority should be able to interfere with this user’s data.
That’s easily supported by the fediverse if a user wants it, by just running their own instance. It’s just more convenient for most users, as a result of not everyone being a technical user, to not do so and use someone else’s instance.
I think the point of Nostr is that its that dezentralized by default, for which I think: why force that much dezentralization on to everybody? What’s the merit?
I mean it is decentralised, there is no single central point controlling the fediverse, that’s decentralised by definition. Yeah isn’t not decentralised to the point of being fully p2p, with everyone hosting their own data, but that’s just a different kind of/approach to decentralisation which has its pros and cons. Decentralised groups cooperating is still very much decentralisation by definition.
No one has to interfere with your data if you host your own instance after all, that’s always an option.
That’s a very narrow defintion of decentralization. Nostr is more dezentralized than the fediverse sure. But its not like going full-steam dezentralization will necessarily result in the best service. For example content moderation would be pretty difficult then I imagine.
I’m sorry to say that, but you get you’re definition wrong. “decentralized” means “which has no center anymore”. ActivityPub is decentralized. The usual criticism of the Fediverse by peer to peer networks such as Secure Scuttlebutt or Dat is not that ActivityPub is not decentralized, but that it will eventually “recentralize”, like client/server models tend to do, when one instance capture all the traffic (like Gmail with SMTP, we already see signs of that with mastodon.social, but we’re still very far from it to be a center). I think that maybe you’ve been exposed to that argument and misunderstood it?
What you really want to say is that ActivityPub is not p2p. You can criticize the fact that there is a server/client model behind it, which means that users don’t really own their data and can lost it if the server goes down - that’s a valid criticism.
To which I would answer that it’s a tradeoff. :) ActivityPub is built on top of HTTP, the well known protocol on which the web is built. This makes it dirt simple to build an ActivityPub app. The difference of adoption rate between SSB, Dat or IPFS and ActivityPub has nothing to do with luck. It’s HTTP and JSON, it’s just simpler (and easier) to build on top of ActivityPub. Not only that, but it’s a w3c standard. Which means, for people like me who have been burnt by building apps on top of the Beaker Browser only to see it abandoned, that we can trust there won’t be any rug pull. That matters.
And of course, you can also… run your own server (look into self-hosting if you’re interested in that, there’s a vibrant community here on Lemmy about that). If you run your server, then you own your data and the other servers become your peers. The idea that only others (presumably big companies) can have servers is a very centralized way of thinking.
I would agree
I think we are just all figuring it out as we go.
One thing is for sure: users want to see relevant high quality information, not spam. And there is also a huge gray area of not-so-obvious spam.
The fediverse has a superior tool to combat spam, by unfederating instances that produce it.
So I do think that the fediverse will kind of win out. I can also see how there will be clusters within the fediverse with different norms.
Some clusters will not allow any hate speech, others will become a magnet for extremists. And the same kind of fractures will happen to other controversial topics.
Fediverse is a part of decentralization, but I think you are talking about P2P network.
You can think of it this way:
- Out of 100% of the power in the Fediverse network, 50% is owned by the instance/relay owner.
- The remaining 50% is distributed among all users using that relay. This gives the owner the authority to remove you from his or her relay.
- In a fully decentralized network(P2P network), 100% is distributed to every user. Everyone is equal; no individual has more privileges than another, and banning is not possible.
(Mastodon serves as a good example of Fediverse: you might get banned from an instance, but you can always create a new account on the same instance or join another one with fewer restrictions.)
(WireMin provides a clear example of Decentralized: in its chat rooms, no one can delete your messages, even if they’re the chat room owner. Moreover, no one can ban you within the WireMin social network.)
There are pros and cons.
Fediverse network:
Pros:
- Efficiency: The Fediverse network is more efficient than a fully decentralized network. It primarily relies on instances that can be hosted on cloud servers, traditional servers, or by powerful third parties hosting a server.
Cons:
- Possibility of banning.
- Privacy concerns: Data is stored on a cloud server.
P2P network:
Pros:
- Privacy security: Data is not stored on a central server.
- No banning or censorship.
Cons:
- Stability depends on user count: The efficiency of a decentralized network depends on having a large user base. The more users there are, the more efficient and stable the network can be.
Please call it “federated network” and “P2P social network”/“full dezentralized network”
The Fediverse is dezentralized
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. Fediverse is decentralised to some extent, but it’s not fully decentralised.
Personally I’d move that “possibility of banning” to a positive
Imagine being unable to ban spammers, scammers, or people posting illegal content.
Or hell even being unable to remove posts
Yeah fediverse is better IMO
True, it depends.
If individual users have ways to ban and/or filter spam on the individual level they don’t have to have others moderate content for them.
deleted by creator
Also completely ignores the fact that there are genuinely good reasons to ban certain people from a social media platform.
The “Free speech absolutist” position is pretty much braindead.
I think fediverse is a good mid point. It’s partly decentralized and moderated by volunteers.
For instance, in decentralized networks, who is going to bring high-quality and moderated content on a public page? If there is going to be moderators, who are they and how they’re going to be selected? If everything going to be free, then whats stopping people from sharing illegal or CSAM?
I’ve read Nostr docs and I saw that users must comply with relays rules to live on that server. If its like this, then there is no difference between Nostr relays and Mastodon servers; there will be authority anyways. Except Mastodon is properly moderated.
Bluesky, Nostr, the Fediverse are all decentralized but have their respective protocols.
I personally hope that the Fediverse will be widely adopted because its not corporate-owned but its not a given at this point.
Bigots are leaving the fediverse for Nostr, which says a lot about what it has to offer in terms of protection from bigots…
